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	<title>Comments on: Fabians fail the fairness test</title>
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	<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/</link>
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		<title>By: Social Liberal Forum &#187; Will we get fairer taxes under the coalition?:</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-2269</link>
		<dc:creator>Social Liberal Forum &#187; Will we get fairer taxes under the coalition?:</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-2269</guid>
		<description>[...] in government.  During the run up to the election, along with most Liberal Democrats, I enthusiastically supported the Liberal Democrat policy to raise personal allowance.  There is much to admire about this policy, but it was always part of a wider, redistributive [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in government.  During the run up to the election, along with most Liberal Democrats, I enthusiastically supported the Liberal Democrat policy to raise personal allowance.  There is much to admire about this policy, but it was always part of a wider, redistributive [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg’s 10k tax allowance is no Tory concession; it's a Tory dream &#124; Left Foot Forward</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-2117</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg’s 10k tax allowance is no Tory concession; it's a Tory dream &#124; Left Foot Forward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-2117</guid>
		<description>[...] Graham’s comments over at the Social Liberal Forum were typical: “The fact that raising the tax threshold helps people on higher incomes more than [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Graham’s comments over at the Social Liberal Forum were typical: “The fact that raising the tax threshold helps people on higher incomes more than [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-2068</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 02:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-2068</guid>
		<description>I remember hearing someone argue that it was unfair and regressive because people who earned £11,000pa benefited more from the policy than those who earned £7,000pa. The willful stupidity was genuinely astonishing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember hearing someone argue that it was unfair and regressive because people who earned £11,000pa benefited more from the policy than those who earned £7,000pa. The willful stupidity was genuinely astonishing.</p>
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		<title>By: LibLink: Danny Alexander on the party&#8217;s tax policies</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-1946</link>
		<dc:creator>LibLink: Danny Alexander on the party&#8217;s tax policies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-1946</guid>
		<description>[...] ran a piece attacking the party&#8217;s tax policies for not being progressive. That results in many responses around the place defending the party&#8217;s policy and today Left Foot Forward runs a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ran a piece attacking the party&#8217;s tax policies for not being progressive. That results in many responses around the place defending the party&#8217;s policy and today Left Foot Forward runs a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Top of the Blogs: The Golden Dozen #161</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-1894</link>
		<dc:creator>Top of the Blogs: The Golden Dozen #161</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-1894</guid>
		<description>[...] Fabians fail the fairness test by James Graham on the Social Liberal Forum. &#8220;James Graham demolishes the Fabian [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fabians fail the fairness test by James Graham on the Social Liberal Forum. &#8220;James Graham demolishes the Fabian [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lib Dem tax policy: Our response to your responses &#124; Left Foot Forward</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-1884</link>
		<dc:creator>Lib Dem tax policy: Our response to your responses &#124; Left Foot Forward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-1884</guid>
		<description>[...] All credit to Clegg for considering the distributional impact of the component parts of his policy package. I’m not sure why so many Lib Dem activists think this is illegitimate (such as James Graham at Social Liberal Forum). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] All credit to Clegg for considering the distributional impact of the component parts of his policy package. I’m not sure why so many Lib Dem activists think this is illegitimate (such as James Graham at Social Liberal Forum). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evidence based, Left Foot Forward? Only if you ignore the actual evidence</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator>Evidence based, Left Foot Forward? Only if you ignore the actual evidence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-1845</guid>
		<description>[...] Fabians fail the fairness test (James Graham &#124; Social Liberal Forum) &#8230; the Lib Dems’ proposed tax package would significantly reduce income inequality, go some way to addressing wealth inequality, would cut the deadweight cost of Labour and would benefit the middle classes as well during an extremely challenging economic period when solidarity between the poor and people on middle-incomes will be crucial. The other major parties, and in particular Labour, have nothing on offer that comes close. I don’t think the smears will get the Fabians and other tribal Labour activists very far but if they want to make this election about the need for fairer tax policies, bring it fucking on. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fabians fail the fairness test (James Graham | Social Liberal Forum) &#8230; the Lib Dems’ proposed tax package would significantly reduce income inequality, go some way to addressing wealth inequality, would cut the deadweight cost of Labour and would benefit the middle classes as well during an extremely challenging economic period when solidarity between the poor and people on middle-incomes will be crucial. The other major parties, and in particular Labour, have nothing on offer that comes close. I don’t think the smears will get the Fabians and other tribal Labour activists very far but if they want to make this election about the need for fairer tax policies, bring it fucking on. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kunzmann</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-1843</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kunzmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-1843</guid>
		<description>My comments left on the &#039;Left Foot Forward&#039; website...


&quot;I am sorry to say that the Left Foot Forward analysis is inadequate (it totally ignores key aspects of Lib Dem tax and beneift policy) and the graphs you use are EXTREMELY misleading.

However, before I go on with my critique, I do acknowledge that your article makes SOME good points about Lib Dem tax policy - namely it is not as redistributive or as many of us on the Lib Dem left would like. I, for example, would like to see a far more redistributive package that helped people right at the very bottom - perhaps through a Citizen&#039;s Income policy for example. 

However, although I belive Lib Dem tax policy could be better (MUCH better) - I will attempt to explain why you are wrong to condemn it in full. 

Concerning the graphs - you only analyse the effect of the raising of the threshold and the changes to the 40p rate. You do not include graphs which show the effect of the tax changes at the top (changes to Capital Gains Tax, Pension Relief and Mansion Tax). If you did, it would show clearly lower and middle deciles benefiting, at the expense of the very top. This would give the casual reader a very different impression of what Lib Dem tax policy implies.

Now, I recognise you do mention this in the text - though you still choose not to put a large emphasis on it. It remains the case that lower income earners DO benefit at the expense of high income earners. This is redistributive and progressive.  

However, more worryingly, you miss some of Lib Dem tax/benefit policies entirely - both from your graphs and your text. Many of these address your concerns that Lib Dem policy is biased towards the middle.
Key aspects of this are:
- The Local Income Tax: Which I believe benefits the lower deciles at the expense of the middle and the top.
- The removal/reduction of tax credits from middle income earners. (Lets leave aside the debate over long vs short tapers for the moment and just focus on the pure, immediate distributive consequences)
- The introduction of higher rate child benefit. (Party policy, which will hopefully still be in the manifesto)

As you said in your text it is stupid to look at income figures before all tax/benefit policies have been applied - yet that is exactly what your own analysis does.

Taking these factors into consideration would show very different (and far more progressive) distributive consequences. It would show the poor benefiting more, the middle benefiting less and the rich really getting even more of a hit! 

I hope that you can accept these points... then go back any redo your pamphlet showing the the effect of Lib Dem tax/benefit policy as a whole. 

Leaving your article as it is can only mislead voters and lead to a seepage of votes away from what are actually the most progressive tax/benefit policies of any of the 3 major parties.

We can all say the policies could be better but don&#039;t condemn everything wholesale on a partial and misleading analysis.

Peter Kunzmann,
Social Liberal Forum&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My comments left on the &#8216;Left Foot Forward&#8217; website&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;I am sorry to say that the Left Foot Forward analysis is inadequate (it totally ignores key aspects of Lib Dem tax and beneift policy) and the graphs you use are EXTREMELY misleading.</p>
<p>However, before I go on with my critique, I do acknowledge that your article makes SOME good points about Lib Dem tax policy &#8211; namely it is not as redistributive or as many of us on the Lib Dem left would like. I, for example, would like to see a far more redistributive package that helped people right at the very bottom &#8211; perhaps through a Citizen&#8217;s Income policy for example. </p>
<p>However, although I belive Lib Dem tax policy could be better (MUCH better) &#8211; I will attempt to explain why you are wrong to condemn it in full. </p>
<p>Concerning the graphs &#8211; you only analyse the effect of the raising of the threshold and the changes to the 40p rate. You do not include graphs which show the effect of the tax changes at the top (changes to Capital Gains Tax, Pension Relief and Mansion Tax). If you did, it would show clearly lower and middle deciles benefiting, at the expense of the very top. This would give the casual reader a very different impression of what Lib Dem tax policy implies.</p>
<p>Now, I recognise you do mention this in the text &#8211; though you still choose not to put a large emphasis on it. It remains the case that lower income earners DO benefit at the expense of high income earners. This is redistributive and progressive.  </p>
<p>However, more worryingly, you miss some of Lib Dem tax/benefit policies entirely &#8211; both from your graphs and your text. Many of these address your concerns that Lib Dem policy is biased towards the middle.<br />
Key aspects of this are:<br />
- The Local Income Tax: Which I believe benefits the lower deciles at the expense of the middle and the top.<br />
- The removal/reduction of tax credits from middle income earners. (Lets leave aside the debate over long vs short tapers for the moment and just focus on the pure, immediate distributive consequences)<br />
- The introduction of higher rate child benefit. (Party policy, which will hopefully still be in the manifesto)</p>
<p>As you said in your text it is stupid to look at income figures before all tax/benefit policies have been applied &#8211; yet that is exactly what your own analysis does.</p>
<p>Taking these factors into consideration would show very different (and far more progressive) distributive consequences. It would show the poor benefiting more, the middle benefiting less and the rich really getting even more of a hit! </p>
<p>I hope that you can accept these points&#8230; then go back any redo your pamphlet showing the the effect of Lib Dem tax/benefit policy as a whole. </p>
<p>Leaving your article as it is can only mislead voters and lead to a seepage of votes away from what are actually the most progressive tax/benefit policies of any of the 3 major parties.</p>
<p>We can all say the policies could be better but don&#8217;t condemn everything wholesale on a partial and misleading analysis.</p>
<p>Peter Kunzmann,<br />
Social Liberal Forum&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-1842</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-1842</guid>
		<description>What irritates me most of all is not that this is partisan, knockabout stuff which is fair enough, but that it is being presented as objective in depth research when it is anything but.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What irritates me most of all is not that this is partisan, knockabout stuff which is fair enough, but that it is being presented as objective in depth research when it is anything but.</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2010/03/15/fabians-fail-the-fairness-test/comment-page-1/#comment-1841</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=377#comment-1841</guid>
		<description>Sunder,

But it is an illegitimate challenge when you are only focusing on one half of the policy. And it certainly does deserve robust rebuttal when it is clear that you are lashing out to divert attention away from your own party&#039;s failure to address the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sunder,</p>
<p>But it is an illegitimate challenge when you are only focusing on one half of the policy. And it certainly does deserve robust rebuttal when it is clear that you are lashing out to divert attention away from your own party&#8217;s failure to address the issue.</p>
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