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	<title>Comments on: Review: The Spirit Level by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett</title>
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	<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/</link>
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		<title>By: Rupert Read</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-2532</link>
		<dc:creator>Rupert Read</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-2532</guid>
		<description>Briefly: Wilkinson agrees with me (personal communication) that his work undermines Rawls. James G. is only correct that Wilkinson and Pickett don&#039;t undermine Rawls if the Difference Principle turns out to be equivalent to egalitarianism. Seeing as the whole raison d&#039;etre of Rawlsian liberalism is, I would argue, the justification of inequality, Rawls(ians) is (are) hardly likely to agree to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Briefly: Wilkinson agrees with me (personal communication) that his work undermines Rawls. James G. is only correct that Wilkinson and Pickett don&#8217;t undermine Rawls if the Difference Principle turns out to be equivalent to egalitarianism. Seeing as the whole raison d&#8217;etre of Rawlsian liberalism is, I would argue, the justification of inequality, Rawls(ians) is (are) hardly likely to agree to this.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Papworth</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-939</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Papworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-939</guid>
		<description>&quot; also wish the book explored how inequality and ethnic diversity are interrelated. Most of the more equal societies listed appear to also be more ethnically more homogenous. Does ethnic diversity drive inequality and to what extent is it a barrier to greater equality?...

...if there is a relationship between inequality and diversity we need to understand it and be able to respond.&quot;

I suspect that there is some truth that diversity leads to inequality, but not, perhaps, for the reasons that many anti-migrationists would have us understand.

To the extent that governments can create more equal societies than would emerge in a free economy, they have to do so with the consent of the governed (unless we are talking about Totalitarian Egalitarianism, and I&#039;m happy to park the Communists for now). It is therefore worth noting the evidence that small, ethnically homogenous, culturally close communities are more willing to bear redistributive policies than are large, diverse and diffuse ones. Just as families are more willing to support their down-on-their-luck bretheren than neighbours, so the people of Iceland are more willing to support the family up the road than are the people of Ipswich.

Japan is a good example here. Though large, it has not had the same level of immigration that European countries have seen and family networks remain stronger.

Apropos James, I should add that I don&#039;t see this as a reason to close borders. Immigration might reduce a society&#039;s willingness to bear governmental efforts to equalise outcomes, but it also increases a society&#039;s ability to grow and develop. I agree with Wilkinson and Pickett that &quot;growth is a bigger factor for [improving overall outcomes in] developing countries&quot; but would suggest that it is true of developed countries as well. The latest MRI scanners will not become widely available by making the UK more equal; they will become more available by making the UK richer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; also wish the book explored how inequality and ethnic diversity are interrelated. Most of the more equal societies listed appear to also be more ethnically more homogenous. Does ethnic diversity drive inequality and to what extent is it a barrier to greater equality?&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;if there is a relationship between inequality and diversity we need to understand it and be able to respond.&#8221;</p>
<p>I suspect that there is some truth that diversity leads to inequality, but not, perhaps, for the reasons that many anti-migrationists would have us understand.</p>
<p>To the extent that governments can create more equal societies than would emerge in a free economy, they have to do so with the consent of the governed (unless we are talking about Totalitarian Egalitarianism, and I&#8217;m happy to park the Communists for now). It is therefore worth noting the evidence that small, ethnically homogenous, culturally close communities are more willing to bear redistributive policies than are large, diverse and diffuse ones. Just as families are more willing to support their down-on-their-luck bretheren than neighbours, so the people of Iceland are more willing to support the family up the road than are the people of Ipswich.</p>
<p>Japan is a good example here. Though large, it has not had the same level of immigration that European countries have seen and family networks remain stronger.</p>
<p>Apropos James, I should add that I don&#8217;t see this as a reason to close borders. Immigration might reduce a society&#8217;s willingness to bear governmental efforts to equalise outcomes, but it also increases a society&#8217;s ability to grow and develop. I agree with Wilkinson and Pickett that &#8220;growth is a bigger factor for [improving overall outcomes in] developing countries&#8221; but would suggest that it is true of developed countries as well. The latest MRI scanners will not become widely available by making the UK more equal; they will become more available by making the UK richer.</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-842</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m flattered - but I&#039;m a mere layman and you might want to run it by someone more knowledgeable than me first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m flattered &#8211; but I&#8217;m a mere layman and you might want to run it by someone more knowledgeable than me first.</p>
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		<title>By: David Cox</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>David Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-838</guid>
		<description>James, Good reasoned defence of Rawls, can I borrow it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, Good reasoned defence of Rawls, can I borrow it?</p>
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		<title>By: David Cox</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-836</link>
		<dc:creator>David Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-836</guid>
		<description>I believe this gigantic exercise in intellectual masturbation will be based on Cohen’s critique of Rawls’s ‘difference principle’ in Rescuing Justice and Equality. Of course whilst Cohen disagrees with Rawls on this point, he gives extreme praise to Rawls and a Theory of Justice.  Read seems to be want to attack Rawls because be is a Liberal. 

Anyway as Marx say ‘what makes a wage slave? –Wages’ Groucho Marx that is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe this gigantic exercise in intellectual masturbation will be based on Cohen’s critique of Rawls’s ‘difference principle’ in Rescuing Justice and Equality. Of course whilst Cohen disagrees with Rawls on this point, he gives extreme praise to Rawls and a Theory of Justice.  Read seems to be want to attack Rawls because be is a Liberal. </p>
<p>Anyway as Marx say ‘what makes a wage slave? –Wages’ Groucho Marx that is.</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-835</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-835</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t see how Rupert Read can possibly be right incidently. He seems to have redefined the Difference Principle. What Wilkinson and Puckett appear to have established is that large income inequality DOESN&#039;T benefit the worst off in society - Rawls would thus argue that it isn&#039;t justifiable.  Read would have us believe that Rawls would ignore the evidence and declare inequality to be good.  That sounds rather more like an INdifference principle.

What Wilkinson and Puckett haven&#039;t demonstrated - and I don&#039;t think would be able to - is that absolute equality of income would be the ideal in terms of social and health outcomes (which is what I assume Read would like it to demonstrate given his politics).  Indeed, as I said in my review, the implication in the book is that at low levels of GDP, growth may well be a bigger factor than equality; there is a dynamic here which isn&#039;t clearly understood.

Perhaps there are better philosophers than I out there who could offer greater illumination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t see how Rupert Read can possibly be right incidently. He seems to have redefined the Difference Principle. What Wilkinson and Puckett appear to have established is that large income inequality DOESN&#8217;T benefit the worst off in society &#8211; Rawls would thus argue that it isn&#8217;t justifiable.  Read would have us believe that Rawls would ignore the evidence and declare inequality to be good.  That sounds rather more like an INdifference principle.</p>
<p>What Wilkinson and Puckett haven&#8217;t demonstrated &#8211; and I don&#8217;t think would be able to &#8211; is that absolute equality of income would be the ideal in terms of social and health outcomes (which is what I assume Read would like it to demonstrate given his politics).  Indeed, as I said in my review, the implication in the book is that at low levels of GDP, growth may well be a bigger factor than equality; there is a dynamic here which isn&#8217;t clearly understood.</p>
<p>Perhaps there are better philosophers than I out there who could offer greater illumination.</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-834</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-834</guid>
		<description>I have to admit I was getting Richard Read and Rupert Read mixed up (I do that a lot). Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to admit I was getting Richard Read and Rupert Read mixed up (I do that a lot). Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: David Cox</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-833</link>
		<dc:creator>David Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-833</guid>
		<description>James,
On his blog:
http://www.rupertsread.blogspot.com/

And a comment on: http://anglobuddhistcombine.blogspot.com/2009/09/equality-is-must.html
Irony here that this is the blog of the Green Party&#039;s Hackney PPC and Hackney Lib Dems had Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett as guests at their garden party. Hackney was also the last stand of the Green Shirts -Social Credit Party in 1951.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,<br />
On his blog:<br />
<a href="http://www.rupertsread.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rupertsread.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>And a comment on: <a href="http://anglobuddhistcombine.blogspot.com/2009/09/equality-is-must.html" rel="nofollow">http://anglobuddhistcombine.blogspot.com/2009/09/equality-is-must.html</a><br />
Irony here that this is the blog of the Green Party&#8217;s Hackney PPC and Hackney Lib Dems had Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett as guests at their garden party. Hackney was also the last stand of the Green Shirts -Social Credit Party in 1951.</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-830</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-830</guid>
		<description>David,

Could you point me to this Rupert Read article you are referring to?

As for Wilkinson being all things to all people, I disagree. There are plenty of people I&#039;ve come across who are profoundly opposed to equality, either in principle or in practice, and are appalled by this book. The book itself doesn&#039;t especially concentrate on policy solutions.

What IS true is that it is a useful book for anyone who DOES believe in equality.  I would accept that there is a risk therefore that it merely confirms people&#039;s prejudices, but isn&#039;t that true of all social research?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Could you point me to this Rupert Read article you are referring to?</p>
<p>As for Wilkinson being all things to all people, I disagree. There are plenty of people I&#8217;ve come across who are profoundly opposed to equality, either in principle or in practice, and are appalled by this book. The book itself doesn&#8217;t especially concentrate on policy solutions.</p>
<p>What IS true is that it is a useful book for anyone who DOES believe in equality.  I would accept that there is a risk therefore that it merely confirms people&#8217;s prejudices, but isn&#8217;t that true of all social research?</p>
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		<title>By: David Cox</title>
		<link>http://socialliberal.net/2009/08/31/review-the-spirit-level-by-richard-wilkinson-and-kate-pickett/comment-page-1/#comment-829</link>
		<dc:creator>David Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://socialliberal.net/?p=309#comment-829</guid>
		<description>Everybody seems to be seeing their policies reflected in the Richard Wilkinson’s work.  It chimes with Pope Leo XIII’s teaching and the Liberal Democrat constitution. Rupert Read is using his work to prove John Rawls was wrong, he’s already found him guilty – is this guy really a reader at UEA ? 
Interesting to note that the most equal societies listed aren’t just more ethnically and culturally homogenous; but constitutional monarchies with compulsory military service – so that bloke down the pub who say bring back national service may have a point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everybody seems to be seeing their policies reflected in the Richard Wilkinson’s work.  It chimes with Pope Leo XIII’s teaching and the Liberal Democrat constitution. Rupert Read is using his work to prove John Rawls was wrong, he’s already found him guilty – is this guy really a reader at UEA ?<br />
Interesting to note that the most equal societies listed aren’t just more ethnically and culturally homogenous; but constitutional monarchies with compulsory military service – so that bloke down the pub who say bring back national service may have a point.</p>
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